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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 04 February 2016

04 Feb 2016 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Carers (Scotland) Bill
Baxter, Jayne Lab Mid Scotland and Fife Watch on SPTV

There are almost 800,000 carers in Scotland. Although around 30,000 to 40,000 people stop caring for a loved one each year, the overall number hardly varies, because a similar number replaces them. According to Carers UK, the economic value of that unpaid care is in excess of £10 billion, which is an enormous amount of money that is saved for our public services; the emotional value of that support and care is inestimable.

Many of us here will have our own experiences of the role that carers play. If one’s friends or family were affected, few would hesitate to help. However, the responsibility of caring for a vulnerable person often goes way beyond helping; it can be more demanding and stressful and go on for much longer than carers might have predicted at the outset of their caring responsibilities.

The care that is needed and provided is vital. Too often, it is not apparent to others; it goes on behind closed doors and away from the agencies that can provide help. Indeed, many carers do not even recognise themselves as such—they simply think that they are doing what is right. As a consequence, the value of that care is not always recognised by the public or by those who provide public services. In fact, the care is often taken for granted. Too often, support service providers do not even know that someone is a carer. People often care for loved ones alone, with little or no external support or engagement with support services, and we need to identify carers at the earliest possible stage, so that they know what support is available to them.

It is common for carers with additional support needs not to be identified as such. One of the challenges that face organisations that wish to support young carers in particular is to actually identify who and where they are; after all, many young people either do not see themselves as having that role or do not want to ask for help. That is why it is so important to take a multi-agency approach to all stages of the care process and to enshrine that in law to ensure that all agencies know their roles and responsibilities in the field.

Underpinning the moves to change that situation for the better is the preparation of carer strategies by the NHS and local government. That work is important, because the NHS can provide a great deal of support for not just the person being cared for but carers themselves. Far too often, however, carers are not aware of the support that is available to them. The needs of carers must be at the forefront of all our minds and at the centre of policy in this field. Indeed, it is clear that we need a coherent, multi-agency approach for most carers.

At stage 2, my colleague Rhoda Grant was able to introduce into the bill a carers charter to ensure that carers know their rights. However, there are many gaps in the bill that still need to be addressed. I supported all the amendments in Rhoda Grant’s name, because they began the process of addressing those gaps. They sought to introduce bereavement support, requirements in relation to planning, a duty to provide advocacy, a general practitioner register of carers, an appeals mechanism, provisions on equalities and national criteria for assistance.

Many people questioned the national criteria that were the subject of an amendment at stage 2. I am pleased that Rhoda Grant considered the issue carefully and worked with local authorities and carers organisations to find a solution to the problem. Along with the Health and Social Care Alliance Scotland, I am concerned that the proposed introduction of eligibility criteria that are defined locally by local authorities will lead to a postcode lottery of support for carers across Scotland. As the alliance put it,

“Whilst local best practice and scope for local variation to satisfy varying needs and caring trends are to be fully supported, we do not believe that there is any justification for a variation in the levels of need which trigger an entitlement to carer support.”

Although the Government did not support Rhoda Grant’s amendments in that regard today, I note the minister’s willingness to address the matter should it become an issue for carers in the months and years to come.

The introduction of a duty to support carers, which is linked to eligibility criteria, is the gateway to new rights for carers. In light of that, clear rights must be available to all, rather than being left at the discretion of local criteria. Support for carers and the people to whom they provide care in considering what arrangements should be in place in an emergency is a vital preventative measure. Effective emergency and future planning is another hugely important aspect of the bill. The security that comes with knowing that a plan is in place should an unexpected event happen is hugely positive for carers.

Marie Curie raised the important issue of what happens to carers who are nearing the end of their caring role. Marie Curie said that planning for the end of the caring role should begin as soon as is appropriate and should be part of the adult carer support plan and young carer statement. The organisation is also surely correct to express concern about the lack of information and advice for people at the end of their caring role.

We should be continuously looking to improve the framework in the bill. Carers issues should be part of the policy-making process. I hope that the bill will improve carers’ lives, but we must recognise that there is much more for us to do.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott) Con
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-15561, in the name of Jamie Hepburn, on the Carers (Scotland) Bill. I invite members who wish to speak in...
The Minister for Sport, Health Improvement and Mental Health (Jamie Hepburn) SNP
I am delighted to open the stage 3 debate on the Carers (Scotland) Bill. If the Parliament agrees to pass the bill, as I hope it will after the debate, today...
Johann Lamont (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab) Lab
That appears to contradict the view of the Cabinet Secretary for Finance, Constitution and Economy, who has put severe limits on what local authorities can d...
Jamie Hepburn SNP
I am afraid that I do not agree with that. Given that we are talking about care today, I might reflect on the fact that we are providing a substantial packag...
Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Lab
There are a large number of people whom I need to thank for their work on the bill over the past weeks and months. I thank our committee clerks and the legis...
Nanette Milne (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
I endorse the thanks that have already been given to all those who have helped with the progress of the bill through its parliamentary stages. When I first ...
Joan McAlpine (South Scotland) (SNP) SNP
It gives me great pleasure to speak in the debate. Just before the debate, I met a group of carers who came to the Parliament with Enable Scotland to celebra...
Johann Lamont (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab) Lab
It is a privilege for me to be involved in the debate and, over the years, to have met and worked with carers, whether those in my family, those whom I knew ...
Joan McAlpine SNP
I appreciate what Johann Lamont says about care workers and their importance. Since she raises the issue, will she tell us whether she will be encouraging La...
Johann Lamont Lab
Absolutely. There is no doubt about the Labour Party’s commitment to the living wage and to respect for care workers. The point that I would make is that car...
Jim Hume (South Scotland) (LD) LD
I support the bill and I am pleased that it has reached and been amended at stage 3. I hope that it will provide a framework of support for the 745,000 adult...
Jamie Hepburn SNP
Mr Hume will have heard my remarks and I hope that he accepts them in good faith. We will monitor the efficacy of the approach that we have legislated for. I...
Jim Hume LD
I appreciate that the minister has put that on the record. I never doubted that he would mention the commitment to review the approach, which he made in good...
Christina McKelvie (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (SNP) SNP
Legislation can take a long time to work its way on to the statute books, but it is just the tip of an iceberg. Underneath it, a host of people and organisat...
Jayne Baxter (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
There are almost 800,000 carers in Scotland. Although around 30,000 to 40,000 people stop caring for a loved one each year, the overall number hardly varies,...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
We move to the closing speeches. I call Jackson Carlaw—I can give you a generous four minutes. 16:47
Jackson Carlaw (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I might disappoint you, Presiding Officer, by not fully utilising them.
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
That will be fine.
Jackson Carlaw Con
In an afternoon in which we draw all the deliberations on the Carers (Scotland) Bill to a conclusion, I acknowledge the bill’s importance. Throughout its pro...
Rhoda Grant Lab
This has been a good debate. Many of us can draw on our own experiences, as many of us have been carers at one point or another. However, we would not be her...
Jamie Hepburn SNP
On a point of information, that funding will go to health and social care partnerships, which are an integral partner of local government. It is important to...
Rhoda Grant Lab
It will indeed go to health and social care partnerships, but it is going through the health budgets, not the local government budgets, so the health boards ...
Joan McAlpine SNP
We have spent hours and years discussing health and social care integration. The care packages are delivered by people in the community and the joint boards....
Rhoda Grant Lab
Many of the joint boards will not be set up until this April, and the money is going to health boards, not to local government, as the Scottish Government ke...
Jamie Hepburn SNP
I thank all the members who have contributed to the debate; they have done so with genuine respect for Scotland’s carers. I welcome the insight that has been...
Rhoda Grant Lab
Given the number of concerns that people have about the resourcing of the bill and the costs of its delivery, if the money that is set out in the financial m...
Jamie Hepburn SNP
As welcome as it was, Ms Grant’s intervention was unnecessary. I will go on to say what I was going to say. I still consider the financial memorandum to be ...
Johann Lamont Lab
If COSLA comes forward with figures that confirm that there is a problem, will the minister give a commitment to look at them and change the financial memora...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
Minister, could you begin to wind up, please?
Jamie Hepburn SNP
I can, indeed. What Johann Lamont said seems to be a case of reading between the lines. I have specifically said to COSLA that I am happy to take any figure...