Committee
COVID-19 Recovery Committee 20 January 2022
20 Jan 2022 · S6 · COVID-19 Recovery Committee
Item of business
Ministerial Statement, Coronavirus Acts Report and Subordinate Legislation
Health Protection (Coronavirus) (Requirements) (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 2022 (SSI 2022/6)
The four harms framework to which Mr Mason refers, which we put in place in the summer of 2020, has been an essential guide in ministers’ decision making. It has enabled there to be a transparent and open conversation with the public and a range of interested parties about the nature of the decisions that have had to be considered. In March and April 2020, direct Covid health harms were exclusively determining the decision making, because we were in such an acute moment of crisis. From the summer of 2020 onwards, we have sought to strike a balance across the four harms. That is reflected in the strategic purpose of the Government’s agenda, which is to try to manage the Covid pandemic in a way that enables people to appreciate and enjoy as many aspects of normal life as possible, and it remains the rational and considered approach that the Government should take. If we disregarded direct health harm, the health service would be overwhelmed before we knew it. That would have been the case in December with omicron. If the Government had ignored the direct health harm, the health service would have been overwhelmed—there is no doubt about that in my mind—and the degree of direct health suffering would have been much greater for members of the public. Not many people in society would think that that was a rational approach for the Government to have taken. The strategy that we have adopted has been to take difficult but evidenced and considered decisions on the balance of the four harms in order to protect public health while enabling people to appreciate and enjoy as much of normal life as we could hope to achieve in the context of a global pandemic.
In the same item of business
The Convener (Siobhian Brown)
SNP
Good morning, and welcome to the second meeting in 2022 of the Covid-19 Recovery Committee. We have received apologies from Alex Rowley MSP and are joined by...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab)
Lab
Thank you. I have no relevant interests to declare.
The Convener
SNP
Thank you. Brian Whittle is running slightly late, so he will be joining us later. This morning, we will take evidence from the Scottish Government on the ...
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Covid Recovery (John Swinney)
SNP
Thank you, convener. I am grateful to the committee for the opportunity to discuss a number of matters, including the updates to the Parliament on Covid-19. ...
The Convener
SNP
Thank you. We are short of time, so I ask for concise questions and answers. Thankfully, the omicron wave is decreasing, although we are cautiously aware th...
John Swinney
SNP
Professor Leitch can provide some of the epidemiological information. A huge amount of surveillance data is still available to Government. Substantial number...
Professor Jason Leitch (Scottish Government)
It is a global problem and not one that Scotland can solve alone. We discovered omicron because a large outbreak in a region of South Africa looked different...
The Convener
SNP
With the omicron variant, people are being encouraged just to do a lateral flow test rather than a PCR one and to self-isolate for the required amount of tim...
John Swinney
SNP
There should not be an issue there. Individuals who are required to self-isolate, which is the case if someone tests positive with a lateral flow device test...
The Convener
SNP
That is very helpful—thank you. We will move on to the next question.
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Con
Good morning, cabinet secretary and colleagues. I have two questions and, given that we are short of time, I will ask them both together. Cabinet secretary,...
John Swinney
SNP
In a moment, I will ask Professor Leitch to deal with the question of epidemic and endemic, because judgment with a clear scientific basis has to be applied ...
Professor Leitch
I will respond briefly to question 2, and then I will answer the question on endemic status. When omicron first emerged, we simply did not know whether the ...
Jackie Baillie
Lab
Good morning. You will be aware that the Scottish Government stopped fertility treatment for those women who were not fully vaccinated on the day before Chri...
John Swinney
SNP
I recognise the significance and sensitivity of the points that Jackie Baillie is raising with me. I will draw on input from Professor Leitch in addition to ...
Professor Leitch
The third question is the easiest. There will be no disadvantage to couples whose IVF treatment has had to be paused. There will be an extension of the time ...
The Convener
SNP
We move on to questions from John Mason. If we have enough time at the end, I will come back to members for supplementary questions.
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP)
SNP
In yesterday’s Herald newspaper, there was a column by Stuart Patrick, who is the chief executive of Glasgow Chamber of Commerce. He argues that this is the ...
John Swinney
SNP
The four harms framework to which Mr Mason refers, which we put in place in the summer of 2020, has been an essential guide in ministers’ decision making. It...
John Mason
SNP
There was some coverage in the media yesterday about compulsory vaccinations. Specifically, it was about an offshore company—I think that it was CNR Internat...
John Swinney
SNP
The Government’s position is that we will not mandate people to have a vaccination. It is a voluntary programme. An individual organisation is free to take s...
John Mason
SNP
I have a final factual question. There has been talk about charging for LFTs. What is the cost of an LFT?
John Swinney
SNP
The last cost that I saw was something of the order of £3 per test, but I stand to be corrected by one of my officials.
Professor Leitch
That is also my understanding. I think that the cabinet secretary saw the same briefing that I saw. The cost was about £3 per test. That is a calculation fro...
Brian Whittle (South Scotland) (Con)
Con
A report that I was looking at on the incidence of lung cancer over the piece says that half of lung cancer diagnoses are being made at stage 4 and that, dur...
John Swinney
SNP
I contend that the relevant data is clearly available because Mr Whittle has just recounted it to me. The collection of such data enables us to see comparati...
Brian Whittle
Con
I understand that the Government has to balance a lot of different factors. However, we know from the numbers that people who are in hospital with Covid or w...
John Swinney
SNP
Essentially, that is reconciled through the four harms framework that I discussed in my answers to John Mason. I will remind the committee of the details of ...
Jim Fairlie (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP)
SNP
I have two questions. One is very narrow, which I will probably direct—Inaudible.. Deputy First Minister, there are lots of reports in this morning’s newspa...
John Swinney
SNP
On Mr Fairlie’s first question, the Scottish Government’s position on the wearing of face coverings—whether in crowded public places, on public transport or ...