Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid) 17 December 2020
17 Dec 2020 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Redress for Survivors (Historical Child Abuse in Care) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
I understand the argument that Mr Gray is marshalling. However, the waiver point is critical, because it hinges on the question of how we enable contributions to be made to the scheme by providers. That is the question that we are all trying to answer. In the judgment that I have come to, the point that Mr Gray makes about the relationship to insurers is adequately dealt with if the waiver is there, because it provides an alternative to court action. In marshalling his argument, Mr Gray acknowledged that an insurer might stand behind a provider in a court action. What I am trying to do with the bill is to find a means whereby the insurer will stand behind the provider for the alternative route. Without that, I cannot see how we elicit the contributions that we all want to see made by providers to a scheme of this type.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Christine Grahame)
SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-23707, in the name of John Swinney, on the Redress for Survivors (Historical Child Abuse in Care) (Scotla...
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills (John Swinney)
SNP
I am pleased to open this debate on the Redress for Survivors (Historical Child Abuse in Care) (Scotland) Bill. The bill is a significant milestone in delive...
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (Con)
Con
I hope that I do not pre-empt Mr Johnson’s question, but does the cabinet secretary accept that, without a cap, the stark reality is that many contributing o...
John Swinney
SNP
Mr Greene makes a fair point, but we have to make judgments about the way in which we are able to address survivors’ legitimate aspiration for there to be a ...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab)
Lab
I am grateful to the cabinet secretary for giving way. Will he comment on the concept of sustainability being included in the bill, as is highlighted in the ...
John Swinney
SNP
That is a reasonable point for us to consider, because there is a fine balance to be struck. Although there is a need for organisations to be held accountabl...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
I call Clare Adamson to open the debate on behalf of the Education and Skills Committee. 15:06
Clare Adamson (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP)
SNP
As convener of the Education and Skills Committee, I welcome the opportunity to highlight its views on the Redress for Survivors (Historical Child Abuse in C...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
If you have more to say, just say it. We have time.
Clare Adamson
SNP
Okay, thank you. That is slightly unusual for you, Presiding Officer.
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
Excuse me! I might get piqued by that and change my mind. No, I am too big a person to do that.
Clare Adamson
SNP
I am grateful, Presiding Officer, especially as it is a very important bill and we want to give due consideration to the other areas. However, I will conclud...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
Thank you, convener. I call Jamie Greene to open for the Conservatives. 15:16
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (Con)
Con
Thank you, Presiding Officer. I look forward to your generosity in equal measure to members on these benches.
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
We do not want to set a trend.
Jamie Greene
Con
The stark and sad reality is that there is little that we can do to fully compensate victims of abuse in care. Words, pounds, letters and payments are the ph...
John Swinney
SNP
I am grateful to Mr Greene for giving way. He has just made the point that contributions are necessary to limit the impact on the public purse. That is one o...
Jamie Greene
Con
I understand and accept that relationship. We all want maximum participation in the scheme for the benefit of everyone: contributing organisations, the taxpa...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
There is some time in hand. Members may expand a little in this sensitive and important debate. 15:26
Iain Gray (East Lothian) (Lab)
Lab
Today has been a long time coming: too long in many ways. It is the latest, and perhaps last, link in a chain of recognition, regret and now, hopefully, redr...
John Swinney
SNP
I understand the argument that Mr Gray is marshalling. However, the waiver point is critical, because it hinges on the question of how we enable contribution...
Iain Gray
Lab
I take the point and I appreciate that that is the Deputy First Minister’s intention. However, all the evidence that we heard from providers and, indeed, fro...
Ross Greer (West Scotland) (Green)
Green
The introduction and the passage of the bill were always going to be a painful experience for many survivors. I pay tribute to the survivor groups and indivi...
Beatrice Wishart (Shetland Islands) (LD)
LD
I, too, am pleased to be speaking in the stage 1 debate on the Redress for Survivors (Historical Child Abuse in Care) (Scotland) Bill; the bill has been desc...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Linda Fabiani)
SNP
Before we move to the open debate, I remind members that, if they are taking part in the debate, they should be in for all the opening speeches and that, eve...
Kenneth Gibson (Cunninghame North) (SNP)
SNP
As we know—and to our collective shame—over several generations, many Scottish children who were placed in the care of organisations or boarded out by the st...
Oliver Mundell (Dumfriesshire) (Con)
Con
I am pleased to follow a number of thoughtful speeches. I start by making it clear that, for victims and survivors, no amount of money nor any apology can t...
Rona Mackay (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP)
SNP
The Redress for Survivors (Historical Child Abuse in Care) (Scotland) Bill has been shaped and is owned by the many people who suffered abuse by people who w...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab)
Lab
I thank the Scottish Government and the Education and Skills Committee for their work on the bill, and I thank all the survivors who helped to shape it. The...
Alex Neil (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP)
SNP
I very much welcome the bill. As other members have said—in particular, people such as Jackie Baillie, who, like me, have been in the Parliament since day 1—...