Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 29 May 2013
29 May 2013 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Automatic External Defibrillators
First, I congratulate Margaret Mitchell on securing the debate. I must also give my apologies, as I will have to leave the chamber before the minister responds to attend to an urgent constituency matter.
I attended Laura and Paul Macadam-Slater’s recent presentation to MSPs, which made a very good case for making life-saving public AEDs more widely available across Scotland, and I very much support what they are trying to achieve. Members will have reflected on the statistics, but they are worth repeating. For the 70 per cent of sudden cardiac arrests that occur outside a hospital environment, there is about a one in 20 chance of survival. I was very struck by that statistic; I was not aware of it before and it has certainly made me think.
Although sudden cardiac arrests are clearly very dangerous, they are treatable, and defibrillation is the accepted method of treatment. Chances of survival dramatically increase if defibrillation is delivered quickly but decrease equally dramatically with every minute that treatment is delayed. Given that, as Margaret Mitchell pointed out, AEDs are easy to use—indeed, they can be used by someone with no medical training at all—the argument seems clear that the provision of AEDs in public places might very well make a significant difference.
As for international comparisons, some countries have had a comprehensive roll-out of publicly available AEDs, while others are at various stages of development. Hong Kong, for example, is rolling out 300 AEDs in public locations, but the lion’s share of the plaudits must go to New Zealand, which, with a population similar to Scotland’s, has 2,941 publicly available AEDs and a fantastic online interactive map that shows people exactly where they are.
For me, that is particularly instructive. Many AEDs are located in health centres, hospitals and fire stations, where we might expect them to be, but there are also many in private businesses, residential addresses, dental surgeries and even boats, all of which are registered online and visible on the map.
Margaret Mitchell’s motion refers to rural areas in particular. In Dumfries and Galloway, some moves have already been made by individual communities towards the wider provision of AEDs. Some community councils have used community benefit money from wind farms to purchase defibrillators, which are available in public buildings such as village halls and shops.
Other communities are participating in the Scottish Ambulance Service’s volunteer first responders scheme. As well as basic first aid and cardiopulmonary resuscitation—CPR—training, an AED is a crucial part of a first responder’s equipment. Although such AEDs are not publicly available, they are ultra-local and can cut response times dramatically. First responders teams are established and running in a number of Galloway’s remoter communities. It is by no means very remote, but Dalbeattie is setting up a group that will provide an out-of-hours first responders service to almost 5,000 people. All that activity is welcome, but it relies, of course, on individuals and groups recognising the importance of the issue and being prepared to act.
In closing, I will mention training and awareness. Conversations with the British Heart Foundation have established that a good number of Dumfries and Galloway’s secondary schools and some of its primary schools have had heartstart training. To complete the equation, we need the equipment—that is for sure—but also public awareness.
I am very pleased that we are having the debate and highlighting the issue. I am particularly grateful to Margaret Mitchell for securing the debate. I wish Laura and Paul Macadam-Slater every success with their campaign, and I hope that, in time, we will see many more publicly available AEDs across Scotland. I also commend the efforts of North Lanarkshire Council.
17:17
I attended Laura and Paul Macadam-Slater’s recent presentation to MSPs, which made a very good case for making life-saving public AEDs more widely available across Scotland, and I very much support what they are trying to achieve. Members will have reflected on the statistics, but they are worth repeating. For the 70 per cent of sudden cardiac arrests that occur outside a hospital environment, there is about a one in 20 chance of survival. I was very struck by that statistic; I was not aware of it before and it has certainly made me think.
Although sudden cardiac arrests are clearly very dangerous, they are treatable, and defibrillation is the accepted method of treatment. Chances of survival dramatically increase if defibrillation is delivered quickly but decrease equally dramatically with every minute that treatment is delayed. Given that, as Margaret Mitchell pointed out, AEDs are easy to use—indeed, they can be used by someone with no medical training at all—the argument seems clear that the provision of AEDs in public places might very well make a significant difference.
As for international comparisons, some countries have had a comprehensive roll-out of publicly available AEDs, while others are at various stages of development. Hong Kong, for example, is rolling out 300 AEDs in public locations, but the lion’s share of the plaudits must go to New Zealand, which, with a population similar to Scotland’s, has 2,941 publicly available AEDs and a fantastic online interactive map that shows people exactly where they are.
For me, that is particularly instructive. Many AEDs are located in health centres, hospitals and fire stations, where we might expect them to be, but there are also many in private businesses, residential addresses, dental surgeries and even boats, all of which are registered online and visible on the map.
Margaret Mitchell’s motion refers to rural areas in particular. In Dumfries and Galloway, some moves have already been made by individual communities towards the wider provision of AEDs. Some community councils have used community benefit money from wind farms to purchase defibrillators, which are available in public buildings such as village halls and shops.
Other communities are participating in the Scottish Ambulance Service’s volunteer first responders scheme. As well as basic first aid and cardiopulmonary resuscitation—CPR—training, an AED is a crucial part of a first responder’s equipment. Although such AEDs are not publicly available, they are ultra-local and can cut response times dramatically. First responders teams are established and running in a number of Galloway’s remoter communities. It is by no means very remote, but Dalbeattie is setting up a group that will provide an out-of-hours first responders service to almost 5,000 people. All that activity is welcome, but it relies, of course, on individuals and groups recognising the importance of the issue and being prepared to act.
In closing, I will mention training and awareness. Conversations with the British Heart Foundation have established that a good number of Dumfries and Galloway’s secondary schools and some of its primary schools have had heartstart training. To complete the equation, we need the equipment—that is for sure—but also public awareness.
I am very pleased that we are having the debate and highlighting the issue. I am particularly grateful to Margaret Mitchell for securing the debate. I wish Laura and Paul Macadam-Slater every success with their campaign, and I hope that, in time, we will see many more publicly available AEDs across Scotland. I also commend the efforts of North Lanarkshire Council.
17:17
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith)
Lab
The final item of business today is a members’ business debate on motion S4M-06362, in the name of Margaret Mitchell, on automatic external defibrillators in...
Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con)
Con
The campaign for AEDs, or automatic external defibrillators, in Scotland is run by first-aiders Laura and Paul Macadam-Slater, who briefed MSPs about the iss...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
Excuse me, Mrs Mitchell. Could I stop you for a moment? People who are leaving the gallery should do so quietly. Parliament is in session.
Margaret Mitchell
Con
The survival chances of people who are affected by cardiac arrest decrease by 14 per cent for every minute without defibrillation. Furthermore, 70 per cent o...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
Thank you very much. I apologise for the earlier interruption.I ask for four-minute speeches, as we are quite tight for time.17:12
Aileen McLeod (South Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
First, I congratulate Margaret Mitchell on securing the debate. I must also give my apologies, as I will have to leave the chamber before the minister respon...
Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (Lab)
Lab
I congratulate Margaret Mitchell on lodging this important motion and I look forward to the rest of the debate, including the minister’s speech, because the ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Lab
I must ask you to conclude.
Malcolm Chisholm
Lab
I ought to add that part of the training is about CPR, which might also be required. That wider education of young people is crucial, but having the devices ...
Nanette Milne (North East Scotland) (Con)
Con
I, too, congratulate my colleague Margaret Mitchell on securing the debate so that we can acknowledge the work of the AEDs in Scotland campaign, which seeks ...
Stewart Stevenson (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP)
SNP
I am sure that it is a great relief to members that the Minister for Public Health is here to respond to the debate. As I recall, he was a member of Scotland...
Siobhan McMahon (Central Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
I congratulate Margaret Mitchell on bringing the debate to the Parliament.I have spoken in the Parliament about the use of AEDs in Scotland, so I welcome the...
Fiona McLeod (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP)
SNP
I, too, thank Margaret Mitchell for bringing the debate to the Parliament. In following Siobhan McMahon, I remember her members’ business debate in November ...
The Minister for Public Health (Michael Matheson)
SNP
As others have done, I congratulate Margaret Mitchell on securing time for this important debate.The sudden and unexpected death of a young person that has b...