Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 24 May 2012
24 May 2012 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Alcohol (Minimum Pricing) (Scotland) Bill
I welcome the debate that we have had, I welcome the bill and I welcome the fact that, at 5 o’clock tonight, it will become the law of Scotland. I also welcome the fact that the Liberal Democrats and Tories have finally seen sense and have moved from oppositional to evidence-based politics. However, I am sorry that Labour is still playing politics with Scotland’s health; indeed, Labour members are making statements even today that are not based on any evidence.
It is important that the Parliament remembers why we had to introduce the bill. The figures for alcohol misuse in Scotland are both stark and frightening. Last autumn, Dr Peter Rice from the Royal College of Psychiatrists in Scotland—he is in the gallery—gave a presentation to a group of MSPs. In the past 20 years, the rate of alcohol-related mortality has gone from 15 to 40 per 100,000 of the population, and the incidence of cirrhosis of the liver has climbed from 28 to 72 per 100,000 of the population. At the same time, affordability of alcohol through off-sales has similarly rocketed. Beer has become 135 per cent more affordable and wines and spirits have become 110 per cent more affordable in that period. As we see the correlation between low prices and alcohol-related ill health, so the international research going back over a century proves that raising the price of alcohol leads to consumption falling—and when consumption falls, the incidence of alcohol-related ill health falls.
Professor Tim Stockwell, who has been mentioned, looked back over 20 years of pricing of alcohol in Canadian states and was able to show that a 10 per cent rise in the cost of alcohol led to a 3.4 per cent drop in consumption. Most relevant in that research is how harm reduction increases as price increases. Jackie Baillie and Margo MacDonald both referred to that, and Bob Doris went a long way in defending it. I refer any member who does not believe in the harm-reduction effects of the bill to the work that was done in 2009 by Meier et al. The highlight of that research, for me, is the finding that the groups whose consumption is most responsive to a rise in the price of alcohol are young people and high-risk drinkers. Those are the people in Scotland whom I hope we all want to help and support out of alcohol abuse.
In 2006, Scotland was bold with its ban on smoking in public places. We should again be proud today that Scotland learns from her mistakes and leads the way where others will follow.
16:37
It is important that the Parliament remembers why we had to introduce the bill. The figures for alcohol misuse in Scotland are both stark and frightening. Last autumn, Dr Peter Rice from the Royal College of Psychiatrists in Scotland—he is in the gallery—gave a presentation to a group of MSPs. In the past 20 years, the rate of alcohol-related mortality has gone from 15 to 40 per 100,000 of the population, and the incidence of cirrhosis of the liver has climbed from 28 to 72 per 100,000 of the population. At the same time, affordability of alcohol through off-sales has similarly rocketed. Beer has become 135 per cent more affordable and wines and spirits have become 110 per cent more affordable in that period. As we see the correlation between low prices and alcohol-related ill health, so the international research going back over a century proves that raising the price of alcohol leads to consumption falling—and when consumption falls, the incidence of alcohol-related ill health falls.
Professor Tim Stockwell, who has been mentioned, looked back over 20 years of pricing of alcohol in Canadian states and was able to show that a 10 per cent rise in the cost of alcohol led to a 3.4 per cent drop in consumption. Most relevant in that research is how harm reduction increases as price increases. Jackie Baillie and Margo MacDonald both referred to that, and Bob Doris went a long way in defending it. I refer any member who does not believe in the harm-reduction effects of the bill to the work that was done in 2009 by Meier et al. The highlight of that research, for me, is the finding that the groups whose consumption is most responsive to a rise in the price of alcohol are young people and high-risk drinkers. Those are the people in Scotland whom I hope we all want to help and support out of alcohol abuse.
In 2006, Scotland was bold with its ban on smoking in public places. We should again be proud today that Scotland learns from her mistakes and leads the way where others will follow.
16:37
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott)
Con
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-02967, in the name of Nicola Sturgeon, on the Alcohol (Minimum Pricing) (Scotland) Bill. I call on Nicola...
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Health, Wellbeing and Cities Strategy (Nicola Sturgeon)
SNP
For the purposes of rule 9.11 of the standing orders, I wish to advise the Parliament that Her Majesty, having been informed of the purport of the Alcohol (M...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab)
Lab
Will the cabinet secretary take an intervention?
Nicola Sturgeon
SNP
If Jackie Baillie wants to comment on Diane Abbott’s support for the Scottish Government, I will be delighted to take an intervention.
Jackie Baillie
Lab
I thank the cabinet secretary for her generosity. First it was the First Minister, and now the Deputy First Minister is following Diane Abbott. I am delighte...
Nicola Sturgeon
SNP
What Jackie Baillie does not tell members is that, before saying that, Yvette Cooper said that she supported minimum pricing. That is the position of Yvette ...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab)
Lab
I, too, welcome the opportunity to participate in the stage 3 debate on minimum pricing, and I too record my thanks to all involved.Throughout the passage of...
Margo MacDonald (Lothian) (Ind)
Ind
Could the member briefly examine whether that figure of 25 per cent is a mean figure across the country? I doubt that it is. I am sure that there are areas o...
Jackie Baillie
Lab
I think that the figure varies by income, which I think is the point that the member is making. I am sure that people will look forward to drinking more with...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Con
I am afraid that the member is running out of time.
Jackie Baillie
Lab
—of large supermarkets at the expense of hard-working public services.I move amendment S4M-02967.1, to insert at end:“but, in so doing, strongly believes tha...
Jackson Carlaw (West Scotland) (Con)
Con
Today is a significant day. Alcohol minimum unit pricing has been the centre of debate in the current session and the previous session of Parliament, almost ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Con
We move to the open debate. Speeches should be of four minutes.16:06
Bob Doris (Glasgow) (SNP)
SNP
The arguments against minimum pricing on the basis of potential supermarket profits or increased revenues have been well and truly exposed this afternoon as ...
Margo MacDonald
Ind
I wonder if the member would like to answer a question for me. What does he see as the result of this measure? Does he see everyone drinking a little less or...
Bob Doris
SNP
It is not how I see it; it is what the evidence points to, which is that the most harmful drinkers will be most affected by these measures. That is what the ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
Con
Yes.
Bob Doris
SNP
Oh dear. I will be brief.The health benefits of minimum pricing differ according to which group we are talking about. It is said that minimum pricing will ha...
Sandra White (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP)
SNP
I am grateful to be able to speak in the debate, given that I am not a member of the Health and Sport Committee.I want to look at the bill in a slightly diff...
Graeme Pearson (South Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
I thank Jackie Baillie for covering most of the ground on the thinking behind Labour’s approach to the bill. Equally, I thank Sandra White and Bob Doris, who...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP)
SNP
Will the member take an intervention on that point?
The Presiding Officer (Tricia Marwick)
NPA
The member has no time. He has precisely 10 seconds left.
Graeme Pearson
Lab
I support the amendment in Jackie Baillie’s name.16:19
Kenneth Gibson (Cunninghame North) (SNP)
SNP
I have to say that I do not agree with the cabinet secretary because I do not think that Labour’s pitiful opposition to the bill is a fig leaf so much as it ...
Willie Rennie (Mid Scotland and Fife) (LD)
LD
I thank Nicola Sturgeon for pioneering the bill. It is pioneering legislation and she is out there in front, proposing a measure that a lot of people will no...
Richard Lyle (Central Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
As a member of the Health and Sport Committee, I welcome the opportunity to speak in the debate. Alcohol minimum pricing is the latest step to change the dri...
Alison Johnstone (Lothian) (Green)
Green
I am very pleased that we are introducing minimum pricing of alcohol. The Scottish Greens have supported the bill in this session and we supported the simila...
Fiona McLeod (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP)
SNP
I welcome the debate that we have had, I welcome the bill and I welcome the fact that, at 5 o’clock tonight, it will become the law of Scotland. I also welco...
Jackson Carlaw
Con
This has been a short but slightly depressing debate in the sense that, even at this late stage, the argument about the bill has continued even though, after...
Dr Richard Simpson (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Lab
In 2001, as the Deputy Minister for Justice, I recognised that Scotland had a growing problem with alcohol and that we were well into the third wave in our h...