Committee
Enterprise and Culture Committee, 27 Jan 2004
27 Jan 2004 · S2 · Enterprise and Culture Committee
Item of business
Individual Learning Accounts
I am disappointed, but that should not be interpreted in any way as being a criticism of those—either Audit Scotland or the Audit Committee—who are engaged in the audit process. In terms of learning lessons, we conducted an internal departmental review, which was important, and we now have an opportunity to consider the findings and recommendations of the Audit Committee. We might have been open to criticism if we had launched into the new scheme while we were awaiting the Audit Committee's report.There is a question of balance. I would like to think that we have put our time to good use by working up the scheme that we have, by market testing it to find out whether it fits with what the client group wants, by engaging in workshops with the learner providers and by testing the mechanics of the system.
In the same item of business
The Convener:
SNP
We move on to agenda item 2, which is individual learning accounts in Scotland. We have in front of us the Deputy First Minister and Minister for Enterprise ...
The Deputy First Minister and Minister for Enterprise and Lifelong Learning (Mr Jim Wallace):
LD
Indeed. I am grateful to you. Perhaps I should begin by introducing the officials who are with me today. Dr John Rigg is the head of the funding for learners...
Mike Watson (Glasgow Cathcart) (Lab):
Lab
We have seen the Audit Committee report to which you referred. Obviously, a number of lessons could have been learned from ILA 1. What overall lesson that ha...
Mr Wallace:
LD
The main lesson is the need for quality assurance and close, rigorous scrutiny and management. I will give more detail in my response to the Audit Committee,...
Mike Watson:
Lab
My fellow members can speak for themselves, but I think that they would agree with me that it is encouraging to hear that. You have talked about rigorous con...
Mr Wallace:
LD
The provisions in the operational rules and supplementary guidance go a long way towards ensuring rigorous levels of quality. It would be a brave person who ...
Mike Watson:
Lab
I accept and welcome what you say. You have given more detail than is in the documents that we have, which are about what the provider must do rather than th...
Mr Wallace:
LD
There will be contractual arrangements, which will be much easier to activate than was the case under the initial scheme. Laura Barjonas can elaborate on the...
Laura Barjonas (Scottish Executive Enterprise, Transport and Lifelong Learning Department):
One of the other main lessons arising out of ILA 1 was that it was not any one thing that was a weakness in the scheme, but a combination of different things...
Mr Wallace:
LD
Paragraph 25 of the operational rules and supplementary guidance considers the audit requirements. Paragraph 31 says what may not happen, and paragraphs 33 t...
Mike Watson:
Lab
My point is that the guidance does not say when that will happen and on what basis. Would there be unannounced visits? Would SUFI representatives just turn u...
Mr Wallace:
LD
It is certainly intended that the providers should be kept very much on their toes.
Mike Watson:
Lab
On what Ms Barjonas said about the various checks and balances, one of the problems was said to be the fact that, to some extent, the Scottish system had pig...
Mr Wallace:
LD
The new scheme has been designed in Scotland for Scotland. I understand that, in England, it has been decided not to have a stand-alone ILA scheme. Northern ...
Mike Watson:
Lab
My final question is really to do with the financial aspects of the scheme for each individual learning account. In the first round, up to £150 was available...
Mr Wallace:
LD
I said earlier that we carried out some focus group work with potential learners, and that information has helped us to shape our plans on setting various mo...
Mike Watson:
Lab
I see the benefits of targeting the scheme. However, you also said that universal introduction will take effect from April 2005. Will the targeting that you ...
Mr Wallace:
LD
I should draw two distinctions in response to that question. First, the scheme that is targeted at people on low incomes covers a broad range of courses. Sec...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con):
Con
I appreciate that you are not here this afternoon to respond to the Audit Committee's report. However, it is clear from the report that ILA 1 was not a succe...
Mr Wallace:
LD
I am as confident as anyone can reasonably be. I should say that the points that you have raised are undoubtedly the internal departmental issues on which th...
Murdo Fraser:
Con
My second question is about timescales. The original scheme was wound up in December 2001 and—if I understand you correctly and if all goes according to plan...
Mr Wallace:
LD
I am disappointed, but that should not be interpreted in any way as being a criticism of those—either Audit Scotland or the Audit Committee—who are engaged i...
Christine May:
Lab
You spoke about targeting a particular group and one area of competence, which was ICT. Is it your intention to target other areas of skills shortage at a la...
Mr Wallace:
LD
The courses that will be available to the targeted group will not be limited to ICT, although ICT courses are what will be available on universal roll-out, w...
Christine May:
Lab
But you will be specifying those courses that are available.
Mr Wallace:
LD
The menu will be available to those who wish to learn.
Christine May:
Lab
So, it will not be the case that anyone can apply for any course that takes their fancy.
Mr Wallace:
LD
People will not be able to apply for any course that takes their fancy; some courses will have to be approved.
Laura Barjonas:
The definition of eligible learning sets out the types of excluded courses. The scheme is broadly comparable to the first scheme, but it has been significant...
Christine May:
Lab
In ensuring that you have dealt with all the issues that the Audit Committee commented on in relation to the first scheme, are you confident that you have do...