Committee
Education, Lifelong Learning and Culture Committee 02 March 2011
02 Mar 2011 · S3 · Education, Lifelong Learning and Culture Committee
Item of business
Public Records (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2
I am pleased to speak to what I consider to be probing amendments. I do so following one or two concerns that I had at stage 1 and the representations that some voluntary sector groups and the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities have made to me since that time, although I also state my support for the main principles of the bill and for the Scottish Government’s desire to ensure that there is improved record keeping across Scotland, which will best be achieved by more transparent, democratic and efficient means of storing relevant information.Although I believe that those principles are central to the Scottish Government’s thinking, I would like further assurance—especially in respect of situations in which it has been proved that potential difficulties exist because there has been either an absence of records or ineffective record keeping—that the relationship between the keeper of the records of Scotland and public authorities will be one of mutual agreement, rather than one that may, in certain circumstances, involve a more top-down approach, thus denying the relevant authorities sufficient scope to contribute to the debate about what constitutes best practice. In such situations, it is essential that there is complete clarity about the process and that, through the consultative process, all stakeholders in promoting good record keeping are in total agreement—I have chosen those words carefully—about the way forward. It is imperative that those who are responsible for keeping records are part owners of the process rather than, as they might be in some circumstances, on the receiving end of instructions about how records should be kept. The Scottish Government is probably extremely well intentioned in that respect, but I would like the minister to provide clarification.I move amendment 29.
In the same item of business
The Convener (Karen Whitefield)
Lab
I open the 7th meeting in 2011 of the Education, Lifelong Learning and Culture Committee. I remind all those present that mobile phones and BlackBerrys shoul...
The Convener
Lab
Amendment 29, in the name of Elizabeth Smith, is grouped with amendments 30, 32, 38, 40 to 42, 44, 5A, 5B, 45, 46 to 48, 7A to 7E, 49 to 54, 57 and 59. I dra...
Elizabeth Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Con
I am pleased to speak to what I consider to be probing amendments. I do so following one or two concerns that I had at stage 1 and the representations that s...
Ken Macintosh (Eastwood) (Lab)
Lab
I speak in support of Elizabeth Smith’s amendments. The key point about the amendments is that they would improve the tone of the bill and strike the right b...
The Minister for Culture and External Affairs (Fiona Hyslop)
SNP
I will respond to all the amendments in the group, with the exception of amendment 42, to which I will return later. Elizabeth Smith has made some important ...
Elizabeth Smith
Con
That is very helpful. We are more or less on the same page. As Ken Macintosh said, it is also a matter of tone. I note what the minister said about amendment...
The Convener
Lab
Amendment 1, in the name of the minister, is in a group on its own.
Fiona Hyslop
SNP
Amendment 1 addresses the issue of how risk should be taken into account in records management planning. It makes it clear that the assessment of risk is pri...
Ken Macintosh
Lab
I welcome amendment 1. The issue raised concern among all members of the committee and our witnesses at stage 1. Although there might be some concern among t...
The Convener
Lab
Minister, do you wish to wind up?
Fiona Hyslop
SNP
No. I just acknowledge that Ken Macintosh and Claire Baker raised the issue at stage 1. One of the reasons why we lodged amendment 1 was to reconcile matters...
The Convener
Lab
Amendment 31, in the name of Ken Macintosh, is grouped with amendments 2, 2A, 36, 39, 43, 56, 16, 16A, 17, 17A, 18 and 58. I draw members’ attention to the p...
Ken Macintosh
Lab
I welcome the amendments that the Government has lodged—amendments 2, 16 and 17—which will ensure that the keeper consults widely. That is something that the...
The Convener
Lab
You are jumping ahead of yourself.
Ken Macintosh
Lab
Indeed.Amendment 58 would remove section 9. The amendment was suggested because that section is seen as being unnecessary because, if we put in a lot of info...
Fiona Hyslop
SNP
Section 1 is important and there are a lot of amendments, so I ask members to bear with me. The Government amendments in the group address concerns that the ...
The Convener
Lab
No other member has a comment to make, so I ask the minister whether she has anything further to add.
Fiona Hyslop
SNP
No, convener. I think that I have said enough about that group.
The Convener
Lab
I am very glad to hear that.
Ken Macintosh
Lab
I welcome the minister’s lengthy comments because these matters are important, particularly for the voluntary sector and public authorities, which have some ...
The Convener
Lab
Amendment 33, in the name of Elizabeth Smith, is grouped with amendments 3, 34 and 35.
Elizabeth Smith
Con
The amendments in my name are probing amendments, and I have heard the minister’s very helpful comments.Amendments 33 and 34 reflect the similar but not iden...
Fiona Hyslop
SNP
Amendment 3, in my name, will help to address voluntary bodies’ concerns that they will have to work with multiple records management plans for the different...
Ken Macintosh
Lab
The minister has already addressed my concerns. We are anxious that when voluntary sector bodies provide common services across different authorities, they d...
Elizabeth Smith
Con
The minister’s clarifications have been helpful. As Ken Macintosh said, it is important that the voluntary sector has that assurance. On the basis that amend...
The Convener
Lab
Amendment 37, in the name of Elizabeth Smith, is in a group on its own.
Elizabeth Smith
Con
As things stand, the bill gives a blanket definition of public records which, as I understand it, encompasses all information that is generated by or on beha...
Fiona Hyslop
SNP
Amendment 37 seeks to remove a crucial part of the bill and cuts to the heart of the bill, which is about the management of records, not the content of recor...
Elizabeth Smith
Con
I have nothing further to say. The minister’s comments have been helpful.Amendment 37, by agreement, withdrawn.Section 3 agreed to.Section 4—Approval of plan...
The Convener
Lab
Amendment 4, in the name of the minister, is grouped with amendment 5.