Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 10 March 2011
10 Mar 2011 · S3 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Scotland Bill
Indeed.
I do not want to throw cold water on what has been a reasonably comradely debate so far, but it has been suggested that the UK Government will bring the next stage of the Scotland Bill to the chamber at Westminster earlier than might have been expected, which would make it difficult for the second LCM debate to take place. I hope that, on leaving the Parliament today, all parties—the Scottish Government and those who have connections with the upper echelons of the UK Government and the Secretary of State for Scotland—will use their good offices to get on the phone and tell the UK Government that that would not be a particularly clever idea and that it would certainly not be in the spirit of this debate.
I will say something about air weapons. I heard what Alex Johnstone said, and welcome the fact that the Conservatives here, at least, seem to accept that it is the will of the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish people to have powers over air weapons devolved. Some of Alex Johnstone’s colleagues in the UK Parliament do not seem to agree with that. However, I sound a note of caution. I have consistently raised the point that those powers must be meaningful. There is no point in transferring a power if nothing can be done with it. That is why it is important that whoever forms the next Scottish Government continues to work with the Home Office, in particular, on its review of firearms legislation so that there is not simply posturing on an important issue for the sake of it.
As I said, this may be my last opportunity to speak in this chamber and I particularly want to make this point. We have talked a lot about greater powers. Of course, greater responsibilities go with greater powers. That will mean members taking a different approach in the next session to scrutinising the financial settlement and what is being done with it. It will also mean that members must be prepared to scrutinise in a different way. Members will have to be bold enough to say that there are things that are done well in Holyrood, but the structures, procedures, committee processes and how the budget negotiations are done may have to change to reflect a different setting and different responsibilities.
We have had the opportunity to have a good debate. I am conscious of the time and I will end by making the point that I have had less time to talk about a whole bill than I had to talk about one clause in another place. However, I thank people for giving me the opportunity to work on the bill.
Wendy Alexander is now back in her seat. I put on record my thanks for everything that she has done to drive these matters forward, not just over the past few years, but in all the time that she has been involved with them as a Labour politician.
16:09
I do not want to throw cold water on what has been a reasonably comradely debate so far, but it has been suggested that the UK Government will bring the next stage of the Scotland Bill to the chamber at Westminster earlier than might have been expected, which would make it difficult for the second LCM debate to take place. I hope that, on leaving the Parliament today, all parties—the Scottish Government and those who have connections with the upper echelons of the UK Government and the Secretary of State for Scotland—will use their good offices to get on the phone and tell the UK Government that that would not be a particularly clever idea and that it would certainly not be in the spirit of this debate.
I will say something about air weapons. I heard what Alex Johnstone said, and welcome the fact that the Conservatives here, at least, seem to accept that it is the will of the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish people to have powers over air weapons devolved. Some of Alex Johnstone’s colleagues in the UK Parliament do not seem to agree with that. However, I sound a note of caution. I have consistently raised the point that those powers must be meaningful. There is no point in transferring a power if nothing can be done with it. That is why it is important that whoever forms the next Scottish Government continues to work with the Home Office, in particular, on its review of firearms legislation so that there is not simply posturing on an important issue for the sake of it.
As I said, this may be my last opportunity to speak in this chamber and I particularly want to make this point. We have talked a lot about greater powers. Of course, greater responsibilities go with greater powers. That will mean members taking a different approach in the next session to scrutinising the financial settlement and what is being done with it. It will also mean that members must be prepared to scrutinise in a different way. Members will have to be bold enough to say that there are things that are done well in Holyrood, but the structures, procedures, committee processes and how the budget negotiations are done may have to change to reflect a different setting and different responsibilities.
We have had the opportunity to have a good debate. I am conscious of the time and I will end by making the point that I have had less time to talk about a whole bill than I had to talk about one clause in another place. However, I thank people for giving me the opportunity to work on the bill.
Wendy Alexander is now back in her seat. I put on record my thanks for everything that she has done to drive these matters forward, not just over the past few years, but in all the time that she has been involved with them as a Labour politician.
16:09
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Alex Fergusson)
NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S3M-8114, in the name of Iain Gray, on the Scotland Bill, which is United Kingdom legislation. I invite membe...
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow Kelvin) (Lab)
Lab
Today is important for the Scottish Parliament and all those who believe in devolution for Scotland. As the Scotland Bill Committee’s report makes clear, the...
The Minister for Culture and External Affairs (Fiona Hyslop)
SNP
The Scottish Government has been extremely constructive not only with the bill committee but with the UK Government. We have made 30 different suggestions fo...
Pauline McNeill
Lab
The member does not recognise that, but I will come to that. Until now, Fiona Hyslop has argued for independence or full fiscal autonomy to the death. Nothin...
The Minister for Parliamentary Business (Bruce Crawford)
SNP
I do not think that you are very amusing at all, actually.
The Presiding Officer
NPA
Order.
Pauline McNeill
Lab
The Scotland Act 1998 was by any standard a landmark piece of legislation. It gave the Parliament very wide powers and, as the Calman commission showed, it g...
Tricia Marwick (Central Fife) (SNP)
SNP
Will the member give way?
Pauline McNeill
Lab
I will take a brief intervention.
Tricia Marwick
SNP
I was struck by the member’s assertion that the Scottish Parliament would be responsible for levying almost a third of the money that it receives. That is si...
Pauline McNeill
Lab
I have heard Tricia Marwick say that before, but the last time I heard her say it, she said that the figure was 15 per cent. I am reading from the committee’...
The Minister for Culture and External Affairs (Fiona Hyslop)
SNP
This debate is a staging post in the Scotland Bill process, and the Scotland Bill is a staging post on the constitutional journey to achieve more powers and ...
Robert Brown (Glasgow) (LD)
LD
I was intrigued by what the minister said about supporting the bill, with reservations. That is not quite what she said at the beginning, when she damned the...
Fiona Hyslop
SNP
We still think that there are fundamental flaws in the income tax proposals, not least because we have no idea how the Treasury will adjust the block grant. ...
Jeremy Purvis (Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale) (LD)
LD
Will the minister give way?
Fiona Hyslop
SNP
I am moving on. The Scottish Government has provided the impetus for the current national debate on the way in which Scotland is governed. Our position is cl...
Fiona Hyslop
SNP
However, we recognise that some, including Mr Purvis, have other sincerely held views. Hence our national conversation provided a detailed and ambitious visi...
Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con)
Con
Just to make it absolutely clear, I say that the referendum that is proposed in the amendment is on the LCM powers as proposed in the motion. It is clear tha...
Fiona Hyslop
SNP
The member might want to look closely at her amendment, because it talks about fiscal powers.The Government has taken the Scotland Bill on its merits. We sup...
Pauline McNeill
Lab
Why did the Government choose 1999 as the basis of its calculations? Does the minister accept that, if the Calman proposals were in place now, Scotland would...
Fiona Hyslop
SNP
As far as I remember, 1999 was the year in which the Scottish Parliament was established and devolution began. The projections that were provided to the comm...
Pauline McNeill
Lab
Will the minister give way?
Fiona Hyslop
SNP
I am moving on.It is important to point out that, although the bill seeks more powers for the Scottish ministers, it provides a net loss of powers to the Sco...
Jim Hume (South of Scotland) (LD)
LD
Will the member give way?
Fiona Hyslop
SNP
I am closing now.Throughout the process of constitutional debate that was initiated by the Government in the national conversation, we have been open to idea...
Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con)
Con
Today’s debate is hugely important, and I fully recognise that, on the issue of the fiscal powers that should be available to Parliament, members will argue ...
Mike Rumbles (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) (LD)
LD
I am trying to find out whether this is an opening speech for the Conservative party or an opening speech for Margaret Mitchell—I am not quite sure.
Margaret Mitchell
Con
This is an amendment speech. With his political experience, Mr Rumbles should know that.The Parliament has justifiably been proud that, since its inception, ...
Ian McKee (Lothians) (SNP)
SNP
Will Margaret Mitchell take an intervention?
Margaret Mitchell
Con
I am sorry—I am in my last minute.The only way to ensure that the Scottish Parliament genuinely seeks the views of and listens to the people whom it represen...