Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 18 November 2010
18 Nov 2010 · S3 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Alternative Vote Referendum Date
There was a time when the American electoral system might have been held up as a good example here, but I am afraid that those days have gone.
There is precedent for movement on this matter. The UK Government has recognised real concerns about the coincidence of elections, and yesterday the Minister for Political and Constitutional Reform wrote to the First Minister and others to ask for views on a proposal to avoid a clash of dates in 2015. We will consider the proposal with others in this Parliament and respond shortly, but I point out that it relates only to 2015. The UK Government does not yet accept that similar problems will be caused in 2011—which is regrettable, given that those problems are palpably there.
The UK public went to the polls in May 2010 and, after some negotiation, a new coalition Government came to power with talk of a new way of doing business. On his first visit to Scotland on 14 May, the Prime Minister called for an
“agenda of respect between our Parliaments”,
saying:
“This agenda is about Parliaments working together, of governing with respect, both because I believe Scotland deserves that respect and because I want to try and win Scotland’s respect as the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom”.
The fact that our elections are taking place in May next year should have come as no surprise to the new UK Government. After all, the Scotland Act 1998 provides that elections to the Scottish Parliament will be held on the first Thursday in May every four years. Given that the provision has been in place for more than 10 years, a simple check would have enabled the UK Government to realise that. Alternatively, it could have picked up the telephone, written a letter or sent an e-mail. However, despite knowing the date of elections in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, the UK Government still chose to hold a referendum next May. I fail to see the respect in introducing legislation that will create a clash of dates and interfere with elections to this Parliament. On such evidence, Mr Cameron needs to try harder on that agenda, because he is not delivering so far.
I am sad to say that, to make matters worse, neither Scottish ministers nor this Parliament were advised of the UK plans in advance. As politicians, we have a vested interest in elections, and, as members of this Parliament, we have a vested interest in the Scottish Parliament’s status, and the UK Government’s actions run counter to both those interests.
More than anything else, though, elections must belong to the voters. More important than our concerns as politicians is the impact that the clash of dates next May might have on the voting public. Their needs must be paramount and the UK Government’s proposals undermine the integrity of the campaign process and our elections as well as unnecessarily complicating matters for our voters.
Of course, it will not just be a question of different ballot papers on election day. With two separate electoral contests, one UK-wide and the other specific to Scotland, will come two simultaneous sets of quite different campaigns. There will be national and UK-wide yes and no campaigns for the alternative vote referendum, with the possibility of individual organisations running separate and additional referendum campaigns. In addition, we will have campaigns for individual MSP candidates and for their parties based on the Scottish Parliament’s responsibilities.
Given the strong influence of the London-based media and in view of what happened earlier this year in the general election campaign, there is a real risk that the AV referendum will eclipse the debate on issues that are key to the Scottish parliamentary elections. Voting reform might be an academic issue for many voters, which might be reflected in the interest in the referendum, but the Scottish Parliament is the decision-making body for many of Scotland’s key issues. For the majority of Scottish people, the predominant issues in the campaign will be our economy and jobs; the strength of our health and education services; the strength and resilience of our communities; and the future of this great nation. For our part, we should be encouraging the public to have views on those key issues and to use their votes accordingly. I am sure that we can all see the risk of multiple messages causing confusion and limiting the quality of debate and engagement that Scotland needs.
We are all aware of the difficulties in 2007 when the Scottish Parliament and local government elections were held on the same day. Following that experience, the Electoral Commission asked Ron Gould, the international elections administration expert, to conduct an independent review, in which he concluded that separating the elections would prevent national issues from dominating local government campaigns and would give greater prominence to local issues. Moreover, he believed that separation would also minimise the potential for voter confusion caused by two elections being held at the same time for different institutions and using different voting systems.
In the light of those findings, the Scottish Government introduced, and the Scottish Parliament unanimously passed, legislation to separate local government and Holyrood elections. Now, in spite of that material and co-ordinated effort, the UK Government is recreating and imposing the same problem, thus negating earlier time and effort and undermining the focus and clarity that we have earned.
Under the current proposals, each voter will receive two ballot papers; the referendum will add a third. The public will be asked to vote for a constituency MSP and a list party or candidate and then to specify whether they wish the alternative vote system to be used.
As things stand, it is for the UK Government to act to avoid the difficulties that a clash of dates would cause in May 2011. The Scottish Government has made clear its opposition to the proposals for a combined poll next year. We have also made it clear that we are prepared to engage with the UK Government to find a way round the problem. It wants to talk about 2015; why not 2011 as well? In the absence of any reciprocal willingness to work with us, I urge the UK Government to hear the compelling arguments and simply change the date of the AV referendum, especially given that the Calman Commission on Scottish Devolution recommended that the secretary of state’s responsibilities for the administration of elections to the Scottish Parliament should be devolved to the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish Government.
The UK Government has said that it will introduce a bill shortly to implement the Calman recommendations, but a restricted interpretation of the Calman proposals would still see Westminster being responsible for deciding the electoral system to be used for Holyrood elections, the franchise at parliamentary elections, the number of MSPs, the electoral boundaries to be used and the timing of the elections. In that case, the Scottish Government would be responsible simply for preparing the regulations under which elections to this Parliament were run, and it would then be for this Parliament to approve the regulations. All in all, that cannot be right, and we will continue to urge the UK Government to transfer full legislative as well as administrative responsibilities for elections to this Parliament.
I move,
That the Parliament notes with real concern the UK Government’s intention to hold a referendum on voting reform for UK Parliament elections on the same day as elections to the Scottish Parliament and other devolved institutions in May 2011; regrets the UK Government’s failure to consult the Scottish Government or the Scottish Parliament on this matter, and calls on the UK Government to work with the Scottish Government to agree a new date that will avoid a clash with elections to this parliament.
15:07
There is precedent for movement on this matter. The UK Government has recognised real concerns about the coincidence of elections, and yesterday the Minister for Political and Constitutional Reform wrote to the First Minister and others to ask for views on a proposal to avoid a clash of dates in 2015. We will consider the proposal with others in this Parliament and respond shortly, but I point out that it relates only to 2015. The UK Government does not yet accept that similar problems will be caused in 2011—which is regrettable, given that those problems are palpably there.
The UK public went to the polls in May 2010 and, after some negotiation, a new coalition Government came to power with talk of a new way of doing business. On his first visit to Scotland on 14 May, the Prime Minister called for an
“agenda of respect between our Parliaments”,
saying:
“This agenda is about Parliaments working together, of governing with respect, both because I believe Scotland deserves that respect and because I want to try and win Scotland’s respect as the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom”.
The fact that our elections are taking place in May next year should have come as no surprise to the new UK Government. After all, the Scotland Act 1998 provides that elections to the Scottish Parliament will be held on the first Thursday in May every four years. Given that the provision has been in place for more than 10 years, a simple check would have enabled the UK Government to realise that. Alternatively, it could have picked up the telephone, written a letter or sent an e-mail. However, despite knowing the date of elections in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, the UK Government still chose to hold a referendum next May. I fail to see the respect in introducing legislation that will create a clash of dates and interfere with elections to this Parliament. On such evidence, Mr Cameron needs to try harder on that agenda, because he is not delivering so far.
I am sad to say that, to make matters worse, neither Scottish ministers nor this Parliament were advised of the UK plans in advance. As politicians, we have a vested interest in elections, and, as members of this Parliament, we have a vested interest in the Scottish Parliament’s status, and the UK Government’s actions run counter to both those interests.
More than anything else, though, elections must belong to the voters. More important than our concerns as politicians is the impact that the clash of dates next May might have on the voting public. Their needs must be paramount and the UK Government’s proposals undermine the integrity of the campaign process and our elections as well as unnecessarily complicating matters for our voters.
Of course, it will not just be a question of different ballot papers on election day. With two separate electoral contests, one UK-wide and the other specific to Scotland, will come two simultaneous sets of quite different campaigns. There will be national and UK-wide yes and no campaigns for the alternative vote referendum, with the possibility of individual organisations running separate and additional referendum campaigns. In addition, we will have campaigns for individual MSP candidates and for their parties based on the Scottish Parliament’s responsibilities.
Given the strong influence of the London-based media and in view of what happened earlier this year in the general election campaign, there is a real risk that the AV referendum will eclipse the debate on issues that are key to the Scottish parliamentary elections. Voting reform might be an academic issue for many voters, which might be reflected in the interest in the referendum, but the Scottish Parliament is the decision-making body for many of Scotland’s key issues. For the majority of Scottish people, the predominant issues in the campaign will be our economy and jobs; the strength of our health and education services; the strength and resilience of our communities; and the future of this great nation. For our part, we should be encouraging the public to have views on those key issues and to use their votes accordingly. I am sure that we can all see the risk of multiple messages causing confusion and limiting the quality of debate and engagement that Scotland needs.
We are all aware of the difficulties in 2007 when the Scottish Parliament and local government elections were held on the same day. Following that experience, the Electoral Commission asked Ron Gould, the international elections administration expert, to conduct an independent review, in which he concluded that separating the elections would prevent national issues from dominating local government campaigns and would give greater prominence to local issues. Moreover, he believed that separation would also minimise the potential for voter confusion caused by two elections being held at the same time for different institutions and using different voting systems.
In the light of those findings, the Scottish Government introduced, and the Scottish Parliament unanimously passed, legislation to separate local government and Holyrood elections. Now, in spite of that material and co-ordinated effort, the UK Government is recreating and imposing the same problem, thus negating earlier time and effort and undermining the focus and clarity that we have earned.
Under the current proposals, each voter will receive two ballot papers; the referendum will add a third. The public will be asked to vote for a constituency MSP and a list party or candidate and then to specify whether they wish the alternative vote system to be used.
As things stand, it is for the UK Government to act to avoid the difficulties that a clash of dates would cause in May 2011. The Scottish Government has made clear its opposition to the proposals for a combined poll next year. We have also made it clear that we are prepared to engage with the UK Government to find a way round the problem. It wants to talk about 2015; why not 2011 as well? In the absence of any reciprocal willingness to work with us, I urge the UK Government to hear the compelling arguments and simply change the date of the AV referendum, especially given that the Calman Commission on Scottish Devolution recommended that the secretary of state’s responsibilities for the administration of elections to the Scottish Parliament should be devolved to the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish Government.
The UK Government has said that it will introduce a bill shortly to implement the Calman recommendations, but a restricted interpretation of the Calman proposals would still see Westminster being responsible for deciding the electoral system to be used for Holyrood elections, the franchise at parliamentary elections, the number of MSPs, the electoral boundaries to be used and the timing of the elections. In that case, the Scottish Government would be responsible simply for preparing the regulations under which elections to this Parliament were run, and it would then be for this Parliament to approve the regulations. All in all, that cannot be right, and we will continue to urge the UK Government to transfer full legislative as well as administrative responsibilities for elections to this Parliament.
I move,
That the Parliament notes with real concern the UK Government’s intention to hold a referendum on voting reform for UK Parliament elections on the same day as elections to the Scottish Parliament and other devolved institutions in May 2011; regrets the UK Government’s failure to consult the Scottish Government or the Scottish Parliament on this matter, and calls on the UK Government to work with the Scottish Government to agree a new date that will avoid a clash with elections to this parliament.
15:07
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Alasdair Morgan)
SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S3M-7427, in the name of Jim Mather, on the alternative vote referendum and 2011 Scottish Parliament election...
The Minister for Enterprise, Energy and Tourism (Jim Mather)
SNP
This is our first debate on electoral matters since I took portfolio responsibility for elections. It comes at a time when we are a mere six months away from...
Robert Brown (Glasgow) (LD)
LD
Does the minister regard the American system, in which people vote for Presidents, members of Congress and everything down to dog-catchers on the same day, a...
Jim Mather
SNP
There was a time when the American electoral system might have been held up as a good example here, but I am afraid that those days have gone.There is preced...
David McLetchie (Edinburgh Pentlands) (Con)
Con
In an ideal world, there would of course be no coincidence in the dates for holding elections to our Parliaments or councils or for the conduct of referenda....
Jim Mather
SNP
Is the member saying that an ideal world would mean no clash of dates?
David McLetchie
Con
I said that, in an ideal world, it would be possible to timetable different dates. However, I also pointed out that this is not an ideal or perfect world, an...
Margaret Curran (Glasgow Baillieston) (Lab)
Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
David McLetchie
Con
No. I want to make some progress.Let us be clear that it was always possible to have dates that coincided, even when not by deliberate design: on many occasi...
Brian Adam (Aberdeen North) (SNP)
SNP
Will the member give way?
David McLetchie
Con
No, thank you.I know that £17 million is small beer in the grand scheme of the gargantuan debts and deficits that were left behind by the Labour Government b...
Maureen Watt (North East Scotland) (SNP)
SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
David McLetchie
Con
No—I am in my last minute.
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
The member has time if he wishes.
David McLetchie
Con
Do I? Thank you very much, Presiding Officer. By all means, then, I will take an intervention.
Maureen Watt
SNP
Will the member acknowledge that the Electoral Commission said:“The rules on how the referendum will be conducted must be clear from at least six months in a...
David McLetchie
Con
The member might want to get picky about a few dates here and there, but I do not really think that it will be too difficult, even for an SNP brain, to work ...
Mike Rumbles (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) (LD)
LD
The Scottish Liberal Democrats support the decision to hold a fairer vote referendum on the same day as the Scottish parliamentary elections. Holding the two...
Jim Mather
SNP
Will the member take an intervention?Margaret Curran rose—
Mike Rumbles
LD
I ask members to let me get started—we do not normally intervene in the first minute of a speech.I hope that everyone in the chamber will think that saving t...
Margaret Curran
Lab
Will the member give way?
Mike Rumbles
LD
Oh, go on.
Margaret Curran
Lab
I am so grateful to the member for taking my intervention.On the respect agenda, if the member’s arguments are so strong, surely he agrees that it was incumb...
Mike Rumbles
LD
I think that the so-called respect agenda is interesting and I will address it in more detail in just a minute.Despite the misgivings of both the SNP and the...
Brian Adam
SNP
Will the member give way?
Mike Rumbles
LD
I have already given way.
Brian Adam
SNP
Once.
Mike Rumbles
LD
I give way to Brian Adam.
Brian Adam
SNP
I am grateful to the member for giving way a second time.Does the member agree that it is not just casting the votes on the day that is important, but the de...
Mike Rumbles
LD
Are Brian Adam and his SNP colleagues really so lacking in confidence in their ability to articulate their views to the Scottish people? That is about the re...